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Nov. 1st, 2002 03:29 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
semperfionaIt's taken me all day to accomplish this particular Friday Five. Lotsa memories and ambivalent feelings tied up with religion for me. I really have no idea what person I would be if I hadn't grown up the way I did; how much of what I am now is rebellion against my parents' values and how much is what I'd be anyway? I like to think I'd be the same person either way but that seems naive.
I try to respect others' beliefs, but because of my personal history, and especially the rifts that Ray's religion caused in our marriage, it can be difficult for me. This post, though, is mostly nostalgic more than anything else.
1. Were you raised in a particular religious faith?
Yes, evangelical fundamentalist Christian. We were not members of a particular denomination however. My family attended Elmbrook Church, a large non-denominational church in Brookfield, Wisconsin, for many years, starting in about 1973 shortly after we moved to Wisconsin. At that time the church was very small, still meeting in the basement of another church. I can picture the building and I know where it is but I can't remember the name of that second church. Elmbrook now has about 10,000 attendees, though when I was still one of them the attendance was about half that.
I've just actually followed that link hoping for a quick history of the church, but they don't provide one. It's as if they just appeared out of nowhere fully formed. My recollection of the group history (as told by members of longer standing) is that it originated as a split-off from a Baptist congregation in the late 60's. At first they met in homes, and then, when the group grew, rented the Ruby Isle movie theater. The next meeting site was the church basement mentioned above; that's when my parents first attended the church, recommended by a family friend. In 1970 Elmbrook invited Stuart Briscoe to come from his home in Liverpool, England, and pastor the church; he retired to move onto other ministries in 2000. I don't remember when they first built at the Barker Road location where they are now, but the building has undergone at least two significant enlargements since.
For most of my childhood we spent at least ten hours of every Sunday doing things related to church. Three services each morning: attend one, go to Sunday school the other, and my parents attended missions committee meetings the third, while I hung out in the church library or with friends. Then we went home for dinner, and came back in the evening for Sunday evening services. There would be at least one and sometimes two events during the week, as well. Pioneer Girls meetings. Junior High and High School youth group meetings. Other events on weekends at least once a month.
We moved to Brookfield to be closer to the church, since the Sunday commute had been about an hour each way from where we lived before. This had the effect of increasing my parents' drive time every day for work, but apparently being closer to church was more important to them than being closer to work.
Most of my friends until college were other kids from the church. I had very few friends that I knew from anywhere else, including school although there was certainly an overlap.
My parents are now missionaries in Peru, but they still consider themselves members of the church and actively participate.
I've got a very good understanding of theology and the Bible from all those years: one of Elmbrook's strong points is that sermons are not fire-and-brimstone conversion harangues (although you get them occasionally, especially from visiting speakers), but as a rule were lessons in dogma for people who were already believers.
2. Do you still practice that faith? Why or why not?
No. I was never very good at evangelizing--I was deathly shy as a child anyway--and as I got older I became less and less interested in it. I began to feel that it was sheer arrogance to tell people that I knew the Truth and their beliefs were nothing but lies. I started to disagree with the whole concept of sin, especially as applied to people who were harming no one (sex outside of marriage, homosexuality, etc).
I'm not really sure what I am now. I attend and participate in pagan events occasionally, but I don't quite feel that I fit in there. It does seem a better fit than most other things, however.
3. What do you think happens after death?
I think there is a part of us--call it the soul for lack of a better name--that does not die, that goes back to the overall Life Force of the universe. Some souls may experience this as reincarnation, because more of the soul stays together through its journey. Others do not.
4. What is your favorite religious ritual (participating in or just observing)?
Christmas services, perhaps? I love anything that involves a lot of group singing. (![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
swy1974, this is where the religious music musings come in. Serendipitous of the Friday Five to cover the same topic, isn't it?)
It's partly from growing up singing hymns over and over, from listening to Messiah every Christmas and Easter, and from my parents' playing the Welsh Men's Chorus recordings on the record player, but I love what I call "the great hymns". This means things like "How Great Thou Art", "A Mighty Fortress", "Amazing Grace", "Be Thou My Vision" (and the half-dozen other hymns also sung to the tune of "Cwm Rhondda"). I also love spirituals and folk gospel songs like "I'll Fly Away".
Even though it's been years since I've set foot in a church except for the occasional wedding, I can still sing the hymns of my youth from memory--usually two or three verses thereof.
On the other hand, I hate most of the modern gospel choruses that are becoming more and more common in services. I've hated them since before I stopped attending church. They're catchy, but lack depth. Maybe it's the fact that years upon years of thousands of people singing the same great songs has invested them with more power, and with time the newer songs will have it too, but I think there is an objective difference in quality between
5. Do you believe people are basically good?
Errrr. I was going to say yes, that people had internal ethics that lead them to cooperate, to behave altruistically, and to refrain from harming others unnecessarily, and then I had a cynical moment. No, people suck. ;-/
I try to respect others' beliefs, but because of my personal history, and especially the rifts that Ray's religion caused in our marriage, it can be difficult for me. This post, though, is mostly nostalgic more than anything else.
1. Were you raised in a particular religious faith?
Yes, evangelical fundamentalist Christian. We were not members of a particular denomination however. My family attended Elmbrook Church, a large non-denominational church in Brookfield, Wisconsin, for many years, starting in about 1973 shortly after we moved to Wisconsin. At that time the church was very small, still meeting in the basement of another church. I can picture the building and I know where it is but I can't remember the name of that second church. Elmbrook now has about 10,000 attendees, though when I was still one of them the attendance was about half that.
I've just actually followed that link hoping for a quick history of the church, but they don't provide one. It's as if they just appeared out of nowhere fully formed. My recollection of the group history (as told by members of longer standing) is that it originated as a split-off from a Baptist congregation in the late 60's. At first they met in homes, and then, when the group grew, rented the Ruby Isle movie theater. The next meeting site was the church basement mentioned above; that's when my parents first attended the church, recommended by a family friend. In 1970 Elmbrook invited Stuart Briscoe to come from his home in Liverpool, England, and pastor the church; he retired to move onto other ministries in 2000. I don't remember when they first built at the Barker Road location where they are now, but the building has undergone at least two significant enlargements since.
For most of my childhood we spent at least ten hours of every Sunday doing things related to church. Three services each morning: attend one, go to Sunday school the other, and my parents attended missions committee meetings the third, while I hung out in the church library or with friends. Then we went home for dinner, and came back in the evening for Sunday evening services. There would be at least one and sometimes two events during the week, as well. Pioneer Girls meetings. Junior High and High School youth group meetings. Other events on weekends at least once a month.
We moved to Brookfield to be closer to the church, since the Sunday commute had been about an hour each way from where we lived before. This had the effect of increasing my parents' drive time every day for work, but apparently being closer to church was more important to them than being closer to work.
Most of my friends until college were other kids from the church. I had very few friends that I knew from anywhere else, including school although there was certainly an overlap.
My parents are now missionaries in Peru, but they still consider themselves members of the church and actively participate.
I've got a very good understanding of theology and the Bible from all those years: one of Elmbrook's strong points is that sermons are not fire-and-brimstone conversion harangues (although you get them occasionally, especially from visiting speakers), but as a rule were lessons in dogma for people who were already believers.
2. Do you still practice that faith? Why or why not?
No. I was never very good at evangelizing--I was deathly shy as a child anyway--and as I got older I became less and less interested in it. I began to feel that it was sheer arrogance to tell people that I knew the Truth and their beliefs were nothing but lies. I started to disagree with the whole concept of sin, especially as applied to people who were harming no one (sex outside of marriage, homosexuality, etc).
I'm not really sure what I am now. I attend and participate in pagan events occasionally, but I don't quite feel that I fit in there. It does seem a better fit than most other things, however.
3. What do you think happens after death?
I think there is a part of us--call it the soul for lack of a better name--that does not die, that goes back to the overall Life Force of the universe. Some souls may experience this as reincarnation, because more of the soul stays together through its journey. Others do not.
4. What is your favorite religious ritual (participating in or just observing)?
Christmas services, perhaps? I love anything that involves a lot of group singing. (
swy1974, this is where the religious music musings come in. Serendipitous of the Friday Five to cover the same topic, isn't it?)It's partly from growing up singing hymns over and over, from listening to Messiah every Christmas and Easter, and from my parents' playing the Welsh Men's Chorus recordings on the record player, but I love what I call "the great hymns". This means things like "How Great Thou Art", "A Mighty Fortress", "Amazing Grace", "Be Thou My Vision" (and the half-dozen other hymns also sung to the tune of "Cwm Rhondda"). I also love spirituals and folk gospel songs like "I'll Fly Away".
Even though it's been years since I've set foot in a church except for the occasional wedding, I can still sing the hymns of my youth from memory--usually two or three verses thereof.
On the other hand, I hate most of the modern gospel choruses that are becoming more and more common in services. I've hated them since before I stopped attending church. They're catchy, but lack depth. Maybe it's the fact that years upon years of thousands of people singing the same great songs has invested them with more power, and with time the newer songs will have it too, but I think there is an objective difference in quality between
God is so goodand
God is so good
God is so good
He's so good to me
O Lord my God when I in awesome wonder,
Consider all the worlds Thy hands have made.
I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder,
Thy power throughout the universe displayed.
Then sings my soul, my Saviour God to Thee,
How great Thou art, how great Thou art!
Then sings my soul, my Saviour God to Thee,
How great Thou art, how great Thou art!
5. Do you believe people are basically good?
Errrr. I was going to say yes, that people had internal ethics that lead them to cooperate, to behave altruistically, and to refrain from harming others unnecessarily, and then I had a cynical moment. No, people suck. ;-/
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Date: 2002-11-01 01:37 pm (UTC)Consider all the worlds Thy hands have made.
I see the stars, I hear the rolling thunder,
Thy power throughout the universe displayed.
Then sings my soul, my Saviour God to Thee,
How great Thou art, how great Thou art!
Then sings my soul, my Saviour God to Thee,
How great Thou art, how great Thou art!
Ummm. Goosebumps. Immediately. That's another of my favorites...